Again with the Nice Guy debate

12 03 2007

I want to kill the original poster (meaning the guy who wrote the blog post). But here are the rest of the reddit comments.

Some choice excerpts:

Women are turned off by the nice guy. While most healthy women don’t want someone who is going to be mean to them, there’s a difference between being kind and being a disgusting wussy.

Being super nice can kill attraction in seconds. Attraction is based on a push/pull. A bit of teasing. Show the girl that you are willing to lose her. Make her take responsibility for her half of the interaction. She wants to be challenged!

Instead, the nice guy wears insecurity on his sleeve without knowing it. He sees it as a badge of honor for why he doesn’t succeed with women. He clings to it to cover the pain of failure.

It’s good to be nice to women. But hoping that meekness will attract women is a fallacy. Niceness on this magnitude is read by women as overcompensation for not having balls. It is overcompensation for not being willing to take true risks.

Pickup artists are absolutely clueless. About relationships. They’ve perfected the player aspect, but nothing else. These ‘men’ are just little boys who love to play games and who need to learn to grow up.




7 responses

12 03 2007
Justin V

Hmm Ok, Interesting Post and Topic.. Nice guys..

–Never did understand the woman’s pyschy and their affinity for the “Bad BOY” lol

–I agree being over nice, can make guys come as as wussy, even gay. It sends the signal of Push Over.

–I agree about the pushing and the pulling. You gotta make the girl work for it a little bit. Even it is just a tease to two.

–Nice guys, are just that, Nice. Not great, not wonderful, just Nice. There are some women that want a nice guy, but nice won’t get you very far these days..

14 03 2007
Matt Savage

I actually agree with what the original poster says. I’d also have to say that though these pick-up artists may seem clueless about relationships to you, you have to understand where a lot of these pick-up artists come from.

Many of these guys never learned how to have “a clue” about meeting women growing up for various reasons, one being the lack of a good role mode which I wrote about here. Therefore, in order for them to actually have a chance meeting women, they turn to the process of learning how to be a pick-up artist.

Of course, I really hate that term “pick-up artist” because it sounds really sleezy but in reality a lot of these guys are just trying to become better men.

-Matt Savage

14 03 2007

Tell that to every PUA I’ve ever met — all they do is talk about and treat women like objects. Talk about women like we don’t have a live brain cell in our craniums. I don’t have a clue about males either, yet, here I am with a nice guy who didn’t have to resort to PUA methods to get me. I honestly do not think that’s an anomaly.

Guys can become better men without resorting to all this PUA bullshit. If a woman tried out any of these methods, they wouldn’t be branded as ‘trying to become a better woman’, don’t you think?

14 03 2007
Matt Savage


You’re right, your relationship with your nice guy is not an anomaly, it’s the norm. Obviously there will be normal people getting together regardless of being a PUA or not. Why wouldn’t they, it’s been happening for millions of years. But what about the extreme cases? What about those nerdy anti-social guys who played video games there whole lives and never learned how to talk to women? Sure, they don’t have to resort to the “pua bullshit” but if they are going to ever have a chance with women then they will need to actively change themselves for the better and that means taking risks.

To me the whole essence of trying to become a PUA is taking the risk to meet and attract women. Many nice guys are just not willing to do this. They don’t have the balls to risk talking to women they are attracted to.

On a side note, women do have their own versions of PUA methods. In fact, there is an entire idustry based on it. Ever heard of magazines like Cosmo or Elle? What about the book, The Rules, or the thousands of other products that try to sell women on attracting men? In my opinion these are no different then what PUAs teach.


19 03 2007

I don’t exactly have a problem with the original post, I just think he could have used some different terminology. He’s not really saying “don’t be a nice guy,” he’s saying “don’t be a pushover,” which is perfectly acceptable. He’s saying, be a little more forward and less likely to let someone walk all over you. He should have worded it differently, because you can learn to talk to girls and still be nice.

Some of the comments, however, are sickening and completely out of line. Women most definitely do not want to be treated “like a back alley dog” or “taken, fucked hard, then thrown out and sent home.” These boys should be castrated post haste.

10 04 2007

It’s seems to me that becoming a Pick up artist is just being more like a woman. We as humans peruse the opposite sex the way we want to be pursued. We don’t see things the way they are, we see things the way WE are. A man is very straight forward with asking a woman out. More times then not the man is labeled a pervert or something because the woman does not understand why a man would be interested in her with out knowing her very long. The man gets rejected and doesn’t understand why because he was being nice and wanted to get to know her better. The woman on the other hand wants a game and to be teased. They call it being cute and flirty. Men call it a pain in the ass. She will be very subtle and never commit to anything. It’s a way to protect herself by not taking any responsibility. Like asking a woman your being intimate with if it’s ok to keep going. She wont say yes or no, she will say something like “I didn’t tell you to stop” That’s just her protecting herself if the relationship goes bad. That way she can say to her friends “He was all over me!” Becoming a PUA and learning the game is usually the only way to meet woman. It teaches you what to look for with body language and how to keep her “feeling” something. It teaches you how to read woman better and act more confident about not needing them. As for the Bad boy complex, that’s more about being co-dependent and wanting to fix the man. Women aren’t interested in the nice man because he doesn’t really need to be fixed. He’s everything she tells her friends she wants. With time the man learns that the woman who blew him off wasn’t really all the special anyway. Once a man doesn’t really care any more is when he becomes attractive.

2 08 2009

It depends on the woman dude, some women are retarded and play those bullshit games or want someone to fix. Women who are more honest and open minded are the only ones worth meeting.

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